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Passerby66 11:56 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

Just to add to my last post - I think a mandate to strike should require more than 50% of members to vote and if it is a yes/no answer I think it should require 51% of the voters to confirm a position for the vote to be carried.

However, if there are more than two options on the ballot then the answer that gets the most votes should win - however, it should still require more than 50% of the electorate to vote in the first place to be legitimate.

In the latest general election 66.1% of the electorate votesd. Would anyone here think that there was legitimacy to the government if less than 50% of the electorate had bothered to vote? I wouldn't, and I don't see why the rules should be any different for the Trade Unions.

We all know that people who feel more strongly about a subject are more likely to vote for it and if Unions are taking strike action on the results of a ballot with (for example) only 25% of their members bothering to vote it is easy to see how the extremes (who are unrepresentative of the membership a a whole) can constantly call the tune.

I have absolutely no problem with the railtrack strike, although it will be a pain in the arse for me personally, as the union has a clear madate of support from members for the strike (60% turnout and 80% support). This action is (again IMO) entirely legitimate and and utterly valid way for the union to act.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 11:53 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

, 11:13 Wed May 13

'No Prime Minister speaks for a country on a mandate of 25% of the electorate.'

No PM has EVER had the 50% mandate you deem necessary. Continued posting of your whiny complaint is pointless and a waste of everybody's time..

Passerby66 11:47 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

You're missing the point.
Unions will now have to have a minimum 50% turnout in strike ballots. It doesn't matter if 40% of them vote for strike action or not if they cant get over half its members to vote.

Kronic - I see what your saying but I don't have a problem with that. As I said before a mandate to strike is essentially a referendum with a yes/no answer so I think that over 50% should have to vote and to get a yes (IMO) it should take 50% of that 50%. If more than 50% of the people do not bother to vote in the referrendum/strike proposal then the union clearly does not have the mandate of support from members for it's action.

A general election is very different as there are more options than just a yes/no answer. Again speaking personally though if less than 50% of the electorte turn out to vote in a general election I would have a problem with the legitimacy of the vote.

Prometheus50 11:35 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

,

Ranil Jayawardens got 66% support and Zac Golsmith 58% to name but two who got over 40% because if an eligible voter chooses not to vote, they declared their interest irrelevant so it is neither for you or anyone else to try and redefine as relevant

Spoiling a ballot paper is the best way to show disdain for candidates you do not like

Darlo Debs 11:23 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

Hermit I utterly agree with you. We could never have got the rights we fought for if people acted in the way you describe. Good on you for actually walking the walk.

Hermit Road 11:19 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

The government are wrong to change the law on a ballot to strike if they maintain they are doing it to make unions more democratic. It patently isn't the case, as elections are decided between those who vote, not those who are entitled to vote. If someone chooses not to vote, it is unreasonable to count their vote as either for, or against a strike.

If the government claimed that they were doing it to make it harder for people to exercise their right to withdraw their labour, then fair enough. They won't do that though, because it is an unwinnable argument.

The main issue for me though is what union members do. I'm sick and tired of people who belong to a union and refuse to support the collective will of the membership. I'm a natural Tory but also a member of a trade union. If my Union takes industrial action, I support it regardless of whether I voted for or against. Over the last few weeks though, I have encountered a huge number of people who think the idea of someone voting Tory is akin to being a concentration camp guard, and yet they're all too willing to take the money from a day's work whilst others in their union go out on strike. They do more damage to the union movement than any law this government will pass.

, 11:13 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

There were no Tory or labour MPs recently elected who got a mandate from 40% of their constituency eligible electors.

Whichever way you cut and dice the voting figures the fact is that there is a huge mismatch between national votes cast and the level of Westminster representation.

No Prime Minister speaks for a country on a mandate of 25% of the electorate.

People, politicians in particular, are sticking their heads in the sand about the way our democracy is becoming unrepresentative.

Prometheus50 11:12 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

Although the voting patterns were mixed, it is clear that UKIP did much damage to Labour and the LibDems and consequently they will look at their share of the vote and essentially seek to replace the LibDems as opposition to Labour in the north and the Conservatives in the south

Darlo Debs 11:03 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

*Principle

Darlo Debs 11:02 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

C&B badger that isnt really the point though is it? Its about making life harder for workers fightung for better pay and conditions and undermining a princie of our freedom ie the right to withdraw our labour. Yet in doing so expecting unions to get a vote turn out that the government were not able to achieve. If it weren't pissing me off so much I would admire the cheek of it.

The Kronic 11:02 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

Passerby66 10:58 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

Just pointing out that he wants the union to have 40% support to make legitimate decisions and some might see the irony in that.

- Not really, you are comparing apples with pears. A strike vote is essentially a referrendum with a Yes/No answer. Technically you would expect that 50.1% would be required for a motion to be carried so 40% is generous.

A general election is a beauty contest amongst 5 main parties plus another 5 smaller ones. Of course when you have two options you would expect a 50%+ response but when you have 10+ options to expect one of them to get 50%+ of the vote is just idiotic.

If the election was just Labour vs Tories then your irony point would have had legitimacy bit since it wasn't then it is nonsense.

Ironic really...

The Kronic 10:58 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

claretandbluedagger 10:56

Not if you're too lazy to vote.
Sajid Javid is a proper vile cunt. The IS of the Tories.

claretandbluedagger 10:56 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

Sven

In an election, there are countless different options, such as this year where there were seven big parties all competing.

In a strike vote, there are generally two options; yes and no. Much easier to get 40% for that.

ted fenton 8:28 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

Time to call Sturgeon's bluff, Cameron urged: Senior Tories tell PM to give Scotland complete financial independence

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3078981/Time-call-Sturgeon-s-bluff-Cameron-urged-Senior-Tories-tell-PM-Scotland-complete-financial-independence.html

Sven Roeder 7:59 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

Don't take it all so seriously
Just pointing out that he wants the union to have 40% support to make legitimate decisions and some might see the irony in that.

After8 7:22 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

People on the right need to stop this defence of ukip no matter what, they're just as bad as the lefties who can't handle any criticism of labour.

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 12:12 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

Sven Roeder 12:08 Wed May 13

'Of course having the support of less than 40% of eligible voters means that any body lacks legitimacy .... that IS what he is saying isn't he ?'

When did a strike become 'a body'?

alphaharps 12:12 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

lol does he mean all the voters in the electorate?

Sven Roeder 12:08 Wed May 13
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

Did I see the new Business Secretary is going to require 40% of eligible voters to support a strike in essential services?
Of course having the support of less than 40% of eligible voters means that any body lacks legitimacy .... that IS what he is saying isn't he ?
What an insult to David Cameron

SurfaceAgentX2Zero 11:27 Tue May 12
Re: The 2015 General Election - Miliband, Clegg and Farage resign

Cholo - Do you think that everyone who disagrees with you is the same poster?

Typical delusional lefty.

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